Posts by Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

49

"You owe Jehovah humility and HONESTY" - an email from a JW

hey forum goers.

i'd like your opinions on constructing an email reply to this shocker below.

bit of background about the sender: she is a middle-aged, cheery uberdub whose siblings left when a schism occured in her congregation in canada way back when.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

So much gold in one thread - thank you, every one of you!

@punkofnice This whole experience of bouncing ideas around with you guys has been beyond cathartic during this time. I feel satisfied enough just reading through your rational replies and coming up with my own hypothetical responses. The dame who emailed me may no longer be getting an actual reply from me.

I love what @StephaneLaliberte did. It really holds a mirror up to Sister Blind Faith's cult speak and forces her to read her own fallacious demands without the WT weasel words watering them down. I kind of wouldn't mind just responding to her email saying:

"Hey! I'm so glad I've got this down in writing now. I've printed your email out to take along to all my Return Visits and interested friends I've been preaching to. Could you believe that this whole time I've been telling them that as Jehovah's Witnesses, we 'welcome ALL questions and are always happy to answer queries about our beliefs. One thing you'll love about Jehovah's Witnesses is that we ALWAYS accept questions, unlike other religions where knowledge is usually restricted to the Priests/Pope or higher-ups'? ...I guess I was giving them misleading information - kind of like a bait-and-switch sales pitch, eh? I feel so bad, but at least now I can honestly set them straight. With your email, I'm able to show them that asking questions about our religion is the gateway to sinning against the Holy Spirit, for which destruction at Armageddon awaits. Our Governing Body is not inspired but somehow, they manage to possess greater knowledge about God and the Bible than any of us mere mortals! It's important you don't question their doctrine because God could kill you at Armageddon.' That ought to shut those interested people up and help them see it's the Truth! :) Thanks for the advice!"

@sparrowdown wrote this in a more recent thead, so I have to include it because it was just so well put: 'I find indifference to their beliefs and their culty social games really gets to them. They really have no idea what to do with indifference. As I said they need a reaction any reaction so they can interpret it and label you as either "guilty" or "bitter" or "pathetic loser" or "weak and ashamed" etc etc. If they are met with smiling indifference to their religious beliefs combined with calm assertiveness ie giving them nothing they can "read" it's like they become genuinely intrigued with why you are immune to their guilt-inducing superpowers. Maybe even intrigued long enough for a little seed of curiosity to sprout in their mind.'

By the way, my son pulled through his operation - we are back from hospital now :). Thank you for the well wishes. xxx

11

Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia Interrogated by Masked Police

by pale.emperor in

http://www.newsweek.com/jehovahs-witnesses-russia-ban-police-903021?utm_source=quora.

i guess the gb's idea of writing to the russian government last year didn't help?

now they have their names and addresses in which to raid their homes.. i sometimes wonder if the gb knew this would happen and wanted it to happen to ensure they'd be persecuted thus creating their own fulfillment of prophecy..

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

If this is true, I feel like such an idiot. I broke down at the Remain Loyal convention when the Bunker videos came on. I was so angry that they were screened because of their sensationalist and anxiety-inducing aspects.

Everyone there told me to calm down because the Governing Body is "warning us in advance so we'd be prepared when this kind of thing happens," etc. I wrote it off as rubbish and proceeded to wake up in the successive weeks after that convention.

Now I can imagine the Witnesses I used to be close to (including my now-estranged parents) talking about how the food indeed came at the proper time and that I was foolish to pull a "Kevin" and abandon the bunker/organization.

Urgh. I've got some mind f*ckery to sort out. I know this Russian gundown isn't part of a divine prophecy, but to the folks I said c'est la vie to as I bounced out of the hall for good, it sure looks that way.

19

Help me with the disfellowshipping topic, how is it NOT scriptural

by LevelThePlayingField in

many have said that jesus never shunned anyone.

yet it seems that the apostle paul said to shun an unrepentant sinner, "stop keeping company" and "not even eating with such a man" 1co 5:9-12. it seems like shunning is what paul wanted us to do.

but honestly, it doesn't seem right to me.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

@LevelThePlayingField I've posted some of this email I sent to my parents on this forum in the past, but I'll paste an excerpt from it again. I hope this assists you with your said belief in Christ and the scriptures.

Bottom line: it's all about context of the writings. Hope my two cents are of some worth:

First scripture I implore you to re-read is Jon: 10b-11 “do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.”

For context, please go back just a few verses to verse 7: “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.” Verse 10a reinforces this by saying "If anyone comes to to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes…” This is in reference to those who are KNOWINGLY denying the resurrection of Jesus Christ, or that he came in the flesh.

The second scripture is 1Cor 5:11 “…stop keeping in company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.” Again, context is very import here. This verse is highlighting a special circumstance that the Corinthian congregation was faced with: Verse one of chapter five refers to the man who is sexually immoral with his father’s wife and living with her. This is the person acting as if they were are brother, carrying on as though they were doing nothing wrong and, ultimately, acting like a hypocrite. And notice - in spite all of that - nowhere does this account instruct not to say a greeting to such a person. It’s simply saying not associate with him as normal because he is doing something very disturbing.

Another detail to take note of: the scripture says, “But now I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother--” so when one decides to leave the WT organization, they are no longer considered a “brother” or sister. How can this apply to ones who have disassociated? This scripture has nothing to do with refusing to say a greeting to these people in public or shunning them even in private (refusing contact).

The custom/tradition of disfellowshipping ones and the process of “applying for reinstatement” and undergoing a set period of time of “proving” oneself before contact can be made with family and loved ones is completely foreign to what the Bible teaches. One just has to consider the parable Jesus made about the Prodigal Son. His father saw the son returning from a distance and… subsequently sent three servants to sit with him, test him for repentance and gave him a full twelve months to sit outside the father’s home before even being acknowledged by his family? We both know that’s not how the account went. The father came running, fell upon his son and kissed him tenderly - in SPITE - of not knowing his heart condition. This is the essence of true Christian love, as taught by Christ. It is unconditional.

As for sinners who still wish to belong to the organization, WT offers us this scripture from 2Thes 3:14 “But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter keep this one marked and stop associating with him, so that he may become ashamed.” Verse 15 reconciles this with “And yet do NOT consider him an enemy, but CONTINUE ADMONISHING HIM AS A BROTHER.” Contrast this with the coldness of shunning as practiced by the Society with video dramatizations and WT articles urging family to not even answer the phone if their disfellowshipped son/daughter/parent is calling. Remember, the Prodigal Son’s father saw his son from a LONG WAY OFF and didn’t have the indoctrinated reflex to turn his face the other way.

49

"You owe Jehovah humility and HONESTY" - an email from a JW

by Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho in

hey forum goers.

i'd like your opinions on constructing an email reply to this shocker below.

bit of background about the sender: she is a middle-aged, cheery uberdub whose siblings left when a schism occured in her congregation in canada way back when.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

@Pete Zahut, that was epic. I like that style!

@jwfacts "Eisegesis" indeed. I also referred to the Dana and Mantey Manual Grammar book as an "addition" instead of "edition" .

...Someone pass me a Dare. My place is all over the head.

49

"You owe Jehovah humility and HONESTY" - an email from a JW

by Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho in

hey forum goers.

i'd like your opinions on constructing an email reply to this shocker below.

bit of background about the sender: she is a middle-aged, cheery uberdub whose siblings left when a schism occured in her congregation in canada way back when.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

@zeb She'd be in her late forties at least.

@Virgochik, you're right. I'm just in the hospital now while my little boy sleeps off his anesthesia. Was a rough few hours. I'm so tired.

I almost feel like writing back and flipping the script to let this sister know how concerned I am for her! And that her email reeked of unscriptural blasphemy (talking down to the acquisition of wisdom - erm, isn't that what Jehovah blessed Solomon for asking? And her contradiction to the nobility spoken of in Acts about the Bereans who made sure that "these things were so" ). I should tell her I'll be praying intensely for her and may Jehovah have mercy on her soul for her sheer recklessness in blind obedience, lol.

I don't know. Just venting while running on an hour of sleep last night. Thank you everyone so far for helping me thrash this out without actually sending anything incriminating to this sister.

49

"You owe Jehovah humility and HONESTY" - an email from a JW

by Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho in

hey forum goers.

i'd like your opinions on constructing an email reply to this shocker below.

bit of background about the sender: she is a middle-aged, cheery uberdub whose siblings left when a schism occured in her congregation in canada way back when.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

@Incognito If the email were sent to me from someone of a different faith and it still smacked of the same arrogance and call to action from Sister Blind Faith's one... I would definitely stand my ground and firmly explain why their email is immoral, illogical and insulting.

The difference is, I wouldn't need to delicately dumb down my response if it were going to a non-cult member.

49

"You owe Jehovah humility and HONESTY" - an email from a JW

by Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho in

hey forum goers.

i'd like your opinions on constructing an email reply to this shocker below.

bit of background about the sender: she is a middle-aged, cheery uberdub whose siblings left when a schism occured in her congregation in canada way back when.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

@pale.emperor I really like that paragraph response you included. That was excellent, thank you.

I hear you all loud and clear - move along with life. But I definitely am keen to read your own versions of replies. @The Fall Guy, I'll keep an eye out on my inbox, cheers.

Okay, I've got a big couple of days ahead of me for my little boy in hospital. Going to try and get some rest now.

Looking forward to reading more from you in the morning :).

49

"You owe Jehovah humility and HONESTY" - an email from a JW

by Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho in

hey forum goers.

i'd like your opinions on constructing an email reply to this shocker below.

bit of background about the sender: she is a middle-aged, cheery uberdub whose siblings left when a schism occured in her congregation in canada way back when.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

Hey forum goers. I'd like your opinions on constructing an email reply to this shocker below.

Bit of background about the sender: She is a middle-aged, cheery uberdub whose siblings left when a schism occured in her congregation in Canada way back when. The controversy was kicked off by one of the local elders over there who went by the name, Brother James Penton. Unable to see the light for herself, this sister knuckled down and dug her heels in the organization, saying goodbye to her brother and sister who woke up and left. She is therefore extra vehemently against apostasy. This sh*t is personal to her.

She doesn't know much about my fade as I only see her once every three or four months. One day last month, she swung by en route to her cleaning job at a local business I live nearby. She asked me about my cong and I casually replied that I've been taking a break from things, gathering my thoughts.

I spoke about the Bible (I still feign a belief in God and chalk up my absence at the meetings to my deep study of the scriptures unassisted by WT exegesis). I happily showed her my Manual Grammar of the New Testament by Julius Mantey (the same addition Fred Franz had appealed to when constructing the Kingdom Interlinear!) and spoke of my passion for getting as close as possible to understanding the original text of the epistles.

We touched on the blood doctrine. I gently expressed some of my concerns I now have as a mother. She told me very seriously why blood transfusions are heinous - even if the organization were to permit them. This sister is very much into homeopathy, natural pathology and some other New Age bullsh*t. I listened respectfully and told her I'd love to read up more on where she was getting her information. She promised to send me some of the research she'd done in favor of her WT confirmation bias.

She did email me some Youtube links to Governmental videos speaking about the dangers of transfusions (yes - there are some videos like that which exist). I thanked her and promised to read/watch all that she sent me. And I did!

So that was that.

And then this morning, I received this email in my inbox after a few weeks of silence...

***********

Hey [WHAM!]

I came across this article and it reminded me of when we spoke and I warned you to be careful that your "questioning" doesn't get out of control and turn to actual sinning against Holy Spirit?

Don't read this with the view to picking it apart, but rather with a humble heart asking Jehovah to guide you. Ok?

I love you and [WHAM! Jr.] and want what is best for your long term future. This world has nothing to offer you but to use you and then spit you out as it already has and you came near to death!

You owe Jehovah humility and honesty. He doesn't favour the intellectual ones who are proud and showy with their academic knowledge.

He sees your loving heart [WHAM!] and has tried to help you on numerous occasions. Now it's time to walk the walk, no more talk. Get to work in proclaiming the kingdom blessings to the lost souls in this dying world. You will be so much happier! (Ignore the occasional hypocrite and just put your nose to the ground pleasing Jehovah).

Lots and lots of love!!

[Sister Blind Faith]

Sin Making Reinstatement Impossible — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1952162#h=9

**********

Now, I'm just wondering... do I even bother with this, you guys? She is clearly wearing some heavy cult blinders, making waking up impossible. I just don't know how to go about this. On the one hand, a part of me just wants to respond with: "Oh, WOW. Thank you so much for sending that amazing article! It all makes so much sense now. Whew, glad to be back in step with everyone."

From what's left of her brain, she'll detect the insincere tone because that's not how I usually write to her. But how could she really argue with that?

The other part of me wants to sit down and address this arrogance head-on. I'm calling on you for any input and suggestions of where to go from here.

@Vanderhoven - you're still a Christian, from memory. If you're around, do you mind putting together some Biblical zingers that will shut this down? That would be amazing.

Any believers and atheists alike who can still appeal to scriptural reason to help me nip this in the bud, please chime in. Usually, I'd be okay with compiling something myself. It's just, my son is going into an operation in the next several hours and I'm a bit stressed :(

I appreciate any advice - even if you tell me to just drag and delete her email and carry on in the real world.

Thanks in advance,

WHAM!

24

JEHOVAH - The biggest racist in history!?

by stuckinarut2 in

many people like to boast about “jehovah being loving and impartial toward all”.

there are even scriptures that say words to that effect.. however, if we look at just his actual conduct and actions , and not accept the words supposedly written by his apologetic “bible writers”, the facts tell us something else!.

firstly, he chose one special nation and race of people.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

@stuckinarut2 Ja, JJ has slung around some anti-semitic language in his time. Back in the early 80s, he accidentally went on the record saying that Jews are "Hymies" and that New York was "Hymietown" in the Washington Post when thought he was having a private chitchat with the reporter! (Pretty ironic for a black guy to act territorial over a place like NEW YORK! That state has the highest population of black residents out of all the US!)

And during Nixon's presidency, JJ remarked that he was "sick and tired of hearing about the Holocaust"... That was a bit scandalous for a civil rights activist.

8

Has anyone seen this?

by wokeup in

google: vintage freemason compilation collinsworth family.. several pages into the program has a familiar face..

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

@Kevin McFree I know, right? Anyone could see they totally PhotoShopped his stubble in.